There are some truths that need to be stated here before I continue. I am a christian. Herman Weiss is a Christian. Nancy Coogan is a Christian.Tod Burros is a Christian. Dave Simmons is a Christian. Steve Saxton is a Christian. Bob San Pascual is a Christian. Dee Dee Rose is a Christian, Dee Jones is a Christian. Chris Blaise is a Christian. Barbara Caban is a Christian.

There is a majority of christians here, who walk in the light as He is in the light, and so we have fellowship with one another.

I am not questioning what the Lord Jesus has begun in the ones I have mentioned.

Amen. Hypocrisy at its finest. And may I say, Cobu all over again, where some get extra chances time and again and others get no chance at all. What part of this madness has God. I say NONE

Now, to your ministry Dave. Why don't you respond?

And Tod, why do you pick and choose where and when and who you show this ministry to? Dave writes this email about what LW is about. Okay fine. I have questions. Now we get into the whole thing we already got into.
I pick and choose Mike, because that is my right. And I believe you have taken away my right, at least on your list. But to your false innuendoes and hintings I say, NOT GUILTY!!!.. NOT GUILTY IN WORD OR DEED
You and Dave say you have a ministry for ex-cobu members. Like I said....That means us! You are on one of the largest gatherings on line of ex-members.

In Cobu we were champions at finding fault, at laughing at those trying to do anything out of the norm. And that laughing mocking spirit always thinks it is entitled to an answer. However, biblically Jesus often did NOT give answer to those who only looked to find fault. There is a funny saying in the world that you can't get there from here. I say you can't get free from the grip of Stewart Traill if your only instinct is to question and try and find fault.

Whether you have been honest about your intentions here or not, the impression is still questionable.

Neil Pendry has his little group. He is steeped in heresy and is not welcome here. Chris Blaise when he had the chance would make his appeal for those here to join him over on his list, which was wierd because this is not a competition and I am not a super center leader and neither is he and so racking up the numbers was never an issue at least for me. Chris' boast of number of messages is to his shame and misunderstanding of what this list is and what his list is. And now, as much as you Tod say that you are not pushing your ministry and not trying to bring it up and Dave hardly appears on this list and gosh LW is not trying to push their thing.....the result of your non-pushing, non-selling is that you are now here and using this list as a means to get your ministry presented. Now is this wrong? Well, no, if you were open about it. You have not been forthright. Dave has not been either.

I spent two weeks answering questions mostly from Jen Williams but others as well, right before this.
How does my answering others questions amount to pushing our ministry, in your mind?
If they didn't ask I would not have responded, as I hadn't done for all my time on the list.
Am I not entitled to answer questions?
And one second you say I am booted for not answering your question, that wasn't a question; and earlier you say my answering questions amounts to pushing my ministry!?
Sounds like a 'John the baptist came neither eating or drinking and Jesus came eating and drinking' 'you can't win either way' thing to me Mike.
If you were honest you would just have said, I don't want you on the list; it is my preference that you be gone. But you had to go and try and justify it.
But your arguments are so filled with holes, swiss cheese laughs at them.

I have questions, others have questions.

Not only is it normal, it is scriptural and our duty as Christians to test everything.

The Stewart Traill 'let me take a blowtorch to it and see if it melts, and if it does it isn't of God' type testing?
Actually this is a fallacy.
As Dave says, the only way to test something is by trying it.
Many have tried our ministry and chosen not to come back.
They are not cursed for doing so.
If you are scared to test or don't want to test, fine. But let's just forget the notion that you just wanted to test things out.
You wanted to find fault to support the gut reaction you already had, which was that somehow we were off.

Now to use your own words Mike: "now that wouldn't have been so bad if you had just been forthright about it"

Have you Tod, or you Dave brought your ministry to our attention or anyone's attention to see whether or not you were running in vain or laboring in vain? If you come here talking about your ministry to ex-members, are you seeking ordination or approval or certification or advice? Don't tell me, "we didn't bring up our ministry, others did" sorry....you did bring up your testimony and you have alluded to your ministry enough that even without Chris' charges we would have known about it.

What I am asking for is walking in the Light. You and Dave have a ministry. fine. Now what? What do you want any of us to do about it? Do you want us to join? Do you want us to spread the word about it? What are you asking anyone here to do? If you cannot be clear on this minor point then how can you expect anyone here to trust you further? Dave, if you are opening your ministry up to brethren here, then field questions here about your ministry. If you don't care that some here have questions and you don't intend to answer anyone here then do not offer your ministry. I for one am not going to stand here and have you or Tod or anyone come on this list and offer some ministry which has born no scrutiny. Testimonials from the few who have been blessed by your work does not meet the test. Call up current cobu and ask them if they are being fed or blessed by ST....you can get at least 50 testimonials of how God is using ST.

Again one standard for Living water, another standard for everyone else.
Darn those uneven scales.
Fred Mitchell spent message after message, as has Tom Pierron, about not believing in God, and never got booted (nor should they have); and encouraging brethren that their faith is in vain.
But because we have the gall to say that we have been appointed to do a task for God for THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEY NEED HELP we are booted !

So I now extend for a 3rd or 4th time. Dave Simmons, will you in the next couple of days, field some questions from brethren here in order to make clear that your ministry is of God? If you are unwilling then I will make the arrangements for you and Tod not to be here in the capacity of ministers. Because this is how you see yourselves, but you have not behaved as ones who have met the test, then I am responsible deny your access here. I will not tolerate heresy here and I will not tolerate false teaching or false shepherds. If you are not guilty then you have nothing to fear, if you are zealous for what's right. If you have erred then there are brethren here who have been given wisdom by God and are trained in the scriptures to correct you with gentleness.

If you both were here simply to fellowship or talk then there would not be an issue. Because your ministry and some of your supporters are now here, I will not bypass this ultimatum of testing for the sake of a few testimonials.

We ex-members have been fooled and burned by a false christ and a false teacher. I do not want to be responsible for any here being led astray again. We must test all things. If you do not want to be tested I will give you a final email for you to invite this whole list to join you on your own list or web site or call you or write you. By then they will know what you are, either by your response or lack thereof.

Mike Montoya

Oh well, again sounds right but what standards Mike?
So you booted us. Hoorah for you.
My faith in God remains in God.
My knowledge of how I was blessed by Dave and Cynthia Simmons and was freed from the grip of Stewart Traill is in no way diminished by your lack of belief or thoughts that we have not met your standard.
And if anyone who reads this ever wishes to discuss these matters, please feel free to contact me.
God Bless all those who seek the Lord and desire to be in his presence and learn from him.
And God Bless all those who were hurt by Stewart Traill. I know your pain. Where you are I have been.
If you want to learn a way out and if you have an ounce of faith that it is possible, then come and test and see if what I say is true.
Why listen to the thoughts of another? Didn't we all do that in Cobu? And what did it get us but pain and misery.
If you believe the Lord is showing you to contact us, please do.
I know the Lord waits to be gracious to you and to show you that he is not who you were taught he was: a harsh taskmaster who is never pleased with you and always expects more than you can give.

I have found God to be merciful and kind these last 20 years. Come and see. Come and test. Tod Burros